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December 1, 2008 4:01 PM PST

Digitizing your music collection--Ask the Editors

Posted by Jasmine France

If there's a lesson to be learned from this week's MP3 Mailbox Monday, it's that flattery will get you everywhere. And that it's hip to be square. Oh, also, there's something about digitizing music and recycling CDs in here, too, though I like to delude myself into thinking you stop by for my self-indulgent-yet-somehow-still-witty intro chatter. What do you mean witty, you say? Ha! Good one. Read on for the skinny.

Q: I just joined CNET--great site, just love it! Here's the thing: I'm old, I'm out of it, and I need help. I only started downloading music a year ago, and now I'm hooked. Love having digital music and want to get rid of my physical CDs. I work non-stop and don't have time to do this myself. I've looked into ripping services and wonder if anyone can recommend one service over another? They all seem pretty much the same as far as cost so I'm looking for actual positive experience with a specific service. I'm in the New York City area but it's fine to ship to a distant location if it's a good service.

Also, what format should I convert to--MP3 or AAC? I have an iPhone, a Mac laptop, and external back up (a time machine). And what do people do with their old CDs? Are there places to donate, recycle, etc.? Thanks a ton!--Clare, via e-mail

One of many services that takes the work out of CD ripping.

A: We haven't done a comparison of CD-ripping services at CNET, but I found one over at Digital Trends that is nicely laid out and includes a wide variety of options. (As usual, I also invite other CNET users to leave feedback below.)

Now, the question of format is a good one, and I'm afraid the answer isn't entirely straightforward. What format to use depends on your purposes. If you're looking for archive-quality audio, lossless is the way to go. The most common lossless format is WAV, but in your case, I'd recommend Apple Lossless, which offers some compression while still preserving the data of the file. (This means the Apple Lossless file will be smaller than the WAV, but will arguably sound just as good.) Apple Lossless is supported by iTunes and most iPods, including the iPhone.

However, lossless isn't all roses. The main issue is the large file size--it's significantly larger than an AAC or MP3 ripped at the highest possible bit rate. For example, a 4-minute track ripped in Apple Lossless will be about 29.5MB, while that same file ripped at 320Kbps AAC will be around 9.5MB. (As a WAV, it's 41.2MB.) That means you'll be able to fit a lot less of them on your iPhone or hard drive. And one more thing to consider: Apple Lossless isn't a highly compatible format, meaning a relatively limited number of devices can play it back. A larger variety of portables support AAC--Sony Walkmans, select Creative Zens, and the Zune among them--but MP3 is by far the most universal format. If you're considering branching off of the iPod tree in the future, a more universal format may be more appealing.

Operation Gratitude takes more than just CDs.

All that being said, you can always convert from Apple Lossless to a "lossy" file type such as AAC or MP3 for your portable player, but that is an extra step for you. However, my thought is that the extra effort is worth it if you want to keep your main collection in the highest possible digital quality. Now, if you're not concerned with the best audio, you could get the CDs ripped straight to AAC or MP3 at 320Kbps--either one is a reasonable choice, but I'd keep the bit rate high.

As for what to do with the CDs once you're done, you can donate them to places like the Goodwill or Salvation Army, or other organizations, such as Operation Gratitude, which sends care packages to our troops. Used book stores and libraries may also accept donations of media. Or you can recycle them.

Addendum: as a commenter below so astutely points out, you should technically hold onto any hard backups for legal reasons--such is the tetchiness of digital copyright law. You can, of course, do as you see fit, and civil liberties discussions abound should you wish to join the fray.

What the RIAA has to say:

  • It's okay to copy music onto an analog cassette, but not for commercial purposes.
  • It's also okay to copy music onto special Audio CD-R's, mini-discs, and digital tapes (because royalties have been paid on them) - but, again, not for commercial purposes.
  • Beyond that, there's no legal "right" to copy the copyrighted music on a CD onto a CD-R. However, burning a copy of CD onto a CD-R, or transferring a copy onto your computer hard drive or your portable music player, won't usually raise concerns so long as:
    1. The copy is made from an authorized original CD that you legitimately own
    2. The copy is just for your personal use. It's not a personal use - in fact, it's illegal - to give away the copy or lend it to others for copying.
  • The owners of copyrighted music have the right to use protection technology to allow or prevent copying.
  • Remember, it's never okay to sell or make commercial use of a copy that you make.
  • MP3 Mailbox Monday is a recurring feature where I answer a selection of questions about MP3 players and accessories, such as headphones, speakers, and music services and software. Check back often to see if the advice presented here might be of some use to you, or send your questions directly to me. (Note: We never include last names, but if you prefer to remain completely anonymous, please state as much in your e-mail.)

For more than five years, Jasmine France has covered a variety of tech products for CNET--from scanners to keyboards to GPS devices--but she's happiest where she is now: sitting atop a pile of MP3 players, "testing" every music service known to man, and jamming a variety of earbuds in every shape and color into her absurdly small ears. E-mail Jasmine.
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) 21 comments
by calmor15014 December 1, 2008 4:41 PM PST
I'd be cautious of suggesting to donate the source CDs. When you give away the CDs (sell, trade, etc), you're also giving away your license to that music. Will anyone ever know? Probably not. But, if you're going for a completely legal digital copy of your music, you should keep the source disc. In the lawyers' eyes, giving the disc away when you're done is no different than ripping someone else's CDs, or just downloading the music illegally.

It's also a good idea to hang onto the disc in case your storage device crashes...
Reply to this comment
by Renegade Knight December 3, 2008 7:05 AM PST
True enough. However if you destroyed your orginals I think legally you would be good. You just couldn't prove it. Ironic no?
by FranklinH10 December 2, 2008 5:53 AM PST
It would be prudent to keep your cds and think of them as a physical backup. Then,if you change your mind about something you would have more options. Think about the people who had old family 8mm home movies put on vhs and then discarded the original films.If they had hung onto them they could now have them transferred to a digital format from the original source and have much clearer images.
Reply to this comment
by Ryanpurcell December 2, 2008 12:04 PM PST
It is not just CDs that can be preserved in Loss-less digital format. There are a few service out there that convert audio from analog formats like LPs and cassette tapes. There are also gadgets and software that allow you to do it at home. There are articles about the process at www.reclaimmedia.com/article-library.html
Reply to this comment
by Vesicant December 3, 2008 7:58 AM PST
The issue for for me isn't the digitization (and why didn't you mention FLAC?), but accessing the music once it's stored. How do I find the specific track I'm looking for? What if I don't know exactly what I want and just want to browse? With physical CDs, those are easy to do, and there's a lot of good ancillary info on the booklets. How does that get digitized? (Putting the booklets in a binder is pointless, since it's not tied to the music.) Also, much of my collection is classical music, and what management software there is on the market is either intended for rock or jazz, tied to a specific hardware platform (e.g., Olive), doesn't run on a remote control, or had its HCI and GUI factors designed on another planet. Seems to me you need to review music management software.
Reply to this comment
by jwc13ac December 3, 2008 8:44 AM PST
Have you looked into Sonos or a Squeeze box system? Both support FLAC, and when transported digitally to a receiver, provided perfect CD quality sound.

And yes, the writer should have mentioned FLAC IMO.
by ajdbarros December 3, 2008 10:31 AM PST
I have a reasonably large classical CD collection and transferred it entirely to a net HD. Started using APE and now I'm using FLAC because several digital players are supporting this format. For purists, I must say I cannot hear any difference playing from a highly acclaimed Marantz CD player or from my laptop. It has a digital out that goes to a multichannel receiver and plays tracks up to 24 bits and 96kHz. The sound is just great.

As for music manager try MediaMonkey - plays all the formats you could wish for, and has a logic that is good (but not perfect) for classical music. If you are careful enough when ripping to record composers, genre, etc. you can later on filter or classify by those. Worth a try, and it's for free!
by Jasmineflower December 3, 2008 10:40 AM PST
I agree that FLAC is a great option for archiving music, but given the environment this particular person is working in, I believe that Apple Lossless is a better fit. (The iPhone, for example, will directly support Apple Lossless, but not FLAC.)

As for organizing digital music, it's pretty simple. Most ripping software and services will automatically arrange things in Artist then Album folders, so you can even just browse in Windows Explorer (or Mac Finder). You could further make overarching Genre folders, should you choose, though that isn't necessary if you find a good music management software that you like (and all your ID3 tags are in order).

When it comes to the jukebox/management apps, it's really a matter of finding what works for you personally. I always recommend trying several (they are free, after all) until you find one that fits your needs. Several programs, such as WinAmp (http://www.download.com/Winamp/3000-2141_4-10890329.html), even have skins that will let you adjust the overall look-and-feel of the app. Standard jukeboxes such as Windows Media Player (http://www.download.com/Windows-Media-Player/3000-2139_4-10600080.html) and iTunes (http://reviews.cnet.com/music-and-recording/apple-itunes-8/4505-3669_7-33248682.html) do a "fine" job of organization in my opinion, and people rave about MediaMonkey (http://www.download.com/MediaMonkey-Standard/3000-2141_4-10903402.html). Also, check out Donald Bell's software comparison story here: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12519_7-10104294-49.html?tag=mncol;title. It deals specifically with programs that work with the iPod, but has some good general info.

Unfortunately, none of this really addresses the booklet issue. Album art is being handled better and better, and you can input liner notes into the Comment section of an ID3v2 tag, but generally have to do that by hand. Not precisely what I'd call "fun." :)
by Johnny Mac 7 December 3, 2008 11:55 AM PST
I agree with the other posts, I would ad just one comment if Clare still wants to dispose of the music collection. Consider donating to a library. That way many other people have the opportunity to enjoy the music. That's a good idea for DVDs, VHS, LPs and possibly cassettes also.
Reply to this comment
by dbackfan638 December 3, 2008 12:38 PM PST
Just in case you may need to explain all the accronyms you so easily toss around!
Reply to this comment
by Jasmineflower December 3, 2008 1:23 PM PST
I threw some links in there for those who would like to learn more about each format--never a bad idea! (Explaining it within the text would be a bit too redundant for the average MP3 Insider follower.)

As for the one used in the comments, FLAC, that's Free Lossless Audio Codec: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flac.
by BrandeisGrad December 3, 2008 1:19 PM PST
Two corrections, once technical and one legal: Jasmine stated "[t]his means the Apple Lossless file will be smaller than the WAV, but will *arguably* sound just as good." There is nothing arguable about it, and I wish CNET editors would do a better job of making this clear to readers. Lossless compressed files (e.g., Apple Lossless or WMA Lossless or FLAC) are mathematically identical to uncompressed lossless files (i.e., WAV), and produce bit for bit exactly the same sound when played back. It is analogous to documents that have been compressed as .zip files -- the documents aren't any lower quality once you unzip them.

Second, legally speaking, I wish CNET would do a better job of clarifying the copyright concerns that are truly at play here. For purposes of copyright law, the reason it is a good idea to hold on to the original CDs is not because you need them to prove you own the music (although that helps), and it's not to serve as an additional backup in case your storage fails (although that's certainly a good idea as well). The reason you must hold on to old CDs once they are ripped is that by ripping them, you have now created two copies of the music (CD and ripped file) where before there was only one, and while that is perfectly legal so long as you are the only one in possession of both copies, it becomes a copyright violation when you keep one copy for yourself and give the other copy to someone else. This is true whether you give that other person the CD or the ripped files. This seems like it should be common sense, regardless of how you feel about copyright law (and I think it is deeply broken and needs to be fixed), but for some reason it is not.

For purposes of copyright law, once you have ripped your CDs into music files, you have two choices: you may either retain the CDs in your own possession, or you may destroy them. I think it is reckless for CNET to even suggest donating them, or letting a friend borrow them, because with precious few exceptions, any time they leave your possession after you've made a second working copy, you are violating copyright law. Even with Jasmine's addendum, this article comes very close to suggesting otherwise, and I think that's a disservice to CNET readers.
Reply to this comment
by mp3addict3 December 3, 2008 1:51 PM PST
Anyone wanting more info should check out the recent Gadgettes podcast on CNET.com or on iTunes, there was someone with the same problem.
Reply to this comment
by dmp3music December 3, 2008 3:47 PM PST
I am the owner of one original CD ripping services (www.dmp3music.com) started in 2003. CNET has provided very good information regarding format selection. Choose MP3 for universality, Lossless if space is not a consideration or on a high quality sound system. We usually recommend MP3 at either 256 or 320 kbps because they cover all bases - universality, great quality, relatively compact size.

One important thing to consider (and not mentioned in this article or the review link) when choosing a ripping service is metadata quality. After all, though it can be tedious, anyone with a bit of extra time can rip an average sized collection of CDs. The real pain comes when trying to standardize and organize the data that comes from the free data services such as Gracennote via iTunes. Ripping services pay extra for better, more organized data. Our company also goes the extra mile of running additional scripts and then in the last step hand grooming and genre mapping (which weeds out redundant genres) to provide a super clean final product.

As for the legal aspects, the commentary is correct - you are required by law to retain the original CD if you have created a copy to use on a computer or MP3 player which is why ripping services send all CDs back to the customer.
Reply to this comment
by Jasmineflower December 4, 2008 10:19 AM PST
Good point on the metadata. Keeping it as clean as possible is definitely the most labor intensive aspect of digitizing a music collection. Automated Internet-based services (such as Gracenote) certainly help, but are often far from perfect in my experience.
by ajdbarros December 6, 2008 5:50 AM PST
The question of format and bitrate is important and, I guess, very personal. But purpose of the encoding is the main issue. For backup of your collection or to listen digitally at home with a hi-fi system, lossless is the best. My choice is FLAC because it is free, open and several pieces of equipment already support it. Still, it compresses only about 50% compared to the original WAV file. Where people often get confused is about compression to use on personal players. Unless you're listening in a quiet environment and with excellent earphones, just go for an decent quality bitrate - MP3 at 128 or 192 VBR bits will give excellent compression - about 8% of the original size. This will maximize the memory of your player - meaning more music - and imperceptible loss of quality. Believe your ears and compare! A good music manager will do the format conversion and copying to your player in a very easy way.
by Leeland Webster December 4, 2008 12:25 AM PST
I sympathize with Claire, I am not old, just older, but I do not know how to download or back-up to an ipod or a disk. I have taken classes but that was just skipped even though I asked how to do it. Will you please explain how to back up a program to a disk or download music to an ipod. I don't have one because I don't know how to use it. I have read everything I can find but may be looking for the wrong tag. C-Net was one of the first programs I downloaded many years ago and wouldn't think of doing without it, if anyone can help, you can. Thank you. Leeland
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by tolitzr25 December 4, 2008 9:31 AM PST
jasmine im new user of computer and i want to ask question regarding the burning of data to a disc. I bought a set of dvd-rw disc ( verbatim) and download a song but when i try to play that to my dvd player the disc wont play. what is the problem??
Reply to this comment
by teamrican December 6, 2008 5:49 AM PST
Shocked that nobody has brought this up, but there still are a few places that give cash for used cd's. If he has a nice collection, attempting to sell them would be his best move. What the re-seller doesn't want or won't accept should then be taken to a local charity. FLAC should have been mentioned in the article for the benefit of others, though for this particular guy because of his Apple-centric world and non-hands on approach style, it wouldn't have been a good option for him.

BrandiesGrad is correct about the legal mumbo jumbo, but I don't think CNET is doing its readers any disservice. The reality is few, if any of us follow the letter of the law regarding digital music management. And with the recent Myspace case out of California, it has been established that anybody who violates a terms of use agreement (including the one on this site that I wager nobody posting here ever read) is guilty of a felony. According to the government, nearly everybody who uses the internet or listens to digital music is a felon. As such, what CNET should be pointing out is instances where "illegal" actions could realistically have consequences. Selling or giving away CD's is not one of those instances.
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by cyberDJ-2038765336053745013836 December 6, 2008 7:05 AM PST
Format incompatibilities, dirt-cheap storage and DRMs are the reason I archive my CDs as WAVs.

I got tired of finding players that couldn't resolve a Lossless format I was using. I tried them all; Apple Lossless, FLAC, and WMA Lossless.
I ran into brick walls with each format. If it wasn't playback problems, it was DRM restrictions.
I never had this problem with vinyl, CDs or tapes. They just played; no questions asked.

WAVs are nearly universal; like MP-3s. So, with a few exceptions, I don't have to worry about them NOT playing.
Plus, I can get a 1TB drive for $100 so there is no logical excuse to marginalize the music so it will all fit on a hard drive.
Don't shrink the music, get more space.
Reply to this comment
by wmyinzer December 6, 2008 2:43 PM PST
Why is the AAC format so widely advertised as the format to use on here?

The true quality difference between mp3, AAC, and WMA files is indistinguishable. Why not convert to mp3? Unless the man is truely a music fanatic then advise him to use either WMA Lossy or AAC Lossy depending on which devices he wants to use them on. Maybe the WAV format would be better..
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MP3 Insider is a blog and weekly podcast created by CNET's MP3 technology experts, Donald Bell and Jasmine France. Each week, Jasmine and Donald discuss the latest digital music (and video) news, hardware, software, and media services, and address reader calls and e-mail. Send us e-mail at mp3insider@cnet.com or call us at 1-800-720-CNET (2638) and be a part of the show.

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Donald Bell Donald Bell is an electronic musician, a veteran record store employee, and a fearless hardware hacker. He's also CNET's Senior Editor for MP3 and digital audio.
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